From Roses, Tulips, & Liberty

Discussion from 10/29/2021

𝔅𝔬𝔯𝔱 β€” 10/29/2021

But perhaps Alegria being so close to France and as a stepping stool to further imperial ambitions in Africa is too hard to pass up and the French invade and create protectorates in western Algeria in the 1860's (in the aftermath of Saint-Domingue independence as a way to make up for the lost prestige and market access in the Americas) but as there are less settlers (no pieds-noir) and other successful French colonies elsewhere the French have a shakier position in North Africa & effectively one foot out of the door. Which then comes to a head during the Communard Wars where local Algerians push out the French (with the support of anti-communard powers perhaps).

In the aftermath of the Communard Wars, Venice in efforts to be seen as a major power, gain prestige and an economic foothold in African trade invades eastern Algeria (and maybe exploits local rivalries to their advantage). They are able to do this due to some industrial development (plus a corresponding a population boom) along with support from the British.

𝔅𝔬𝔯𝔱 β€” 10/29/2021

This leaves western Algeria (the part the French had pre communard wars) as native controlled. So what if the French plans to re-invade were thwarted by the British who on behalf of Venice (and maybe even Spain too) used their influence in the moderate Communard republic to stop these plans from coming to fruition.

and maybe in the early 20th century Britain  officially adds western Algeria as a protectorate (much to the dismay of the French government )

and the "Algeria question" becomes a sore spot in Franco-British relations in the 1910s & 1920s


As for Genoan-Ottoman Tunisia I know we have it as a condominium in 1895 but perhaps the relationship is more like a semi-independent state under Ottoman suzerainty in which Genoa has full trading rights with and a decent amount of Italian settlers and traders (sort of like Italian Pieds-noirs, likely mostly refugees and migrants from the various Italian wars and crises in this period).

so wdyt?

Supreme Duchess Tim β€” 10/29/2021

I like it, makes sense ! This would also help to built up anti British sentiment

wannabee β€” 10/29/2021

@𝔅𝔬𝔯𝔱 I like these ideas! So by the 1900s, how strong do you think the Venetian grasp on eastern Algeria is? I'm guessing very weak.

Maybe they formally cede their claims to Britain too in exchange for defending them against Austria during 1911-1912? (despite the fact that they didn't have de facto control over their claims), as a form of formality and avoiding diplomatic conflict with Britain?

wannabee β€” 10/29/2021

That makes sense. It's basically like the Genoese PanamΓ‘ Viejo in OTL. IOTL it was nominally Spanish but they allowed Genoa to have full trading rights there.

I like them

𝔅𝔬𝔯𝔱 β€” 10/30/2021

Yeah that could work, they ceede their colony in 1912 but perhaps keep a port (kinda like Spanish Ceuta)

karjo β€” 10/30/2021

I think that Annaba/Bona and/or Bejaia/Bugia are the most feasible choices for Venice for two reasons;

1) Both of the cities have been historically a European post in OTL, post-POD and pre-POD (Like Annaba was among first cities to be controlled by French in OTL during 19th century while Bougia was hotly contested in 16th and 17th century, between Turks and Spaniards)

2) These cities would probably been strongholds of Venice on this fluke cuz they horribly struggle to keep innerland. Also these cities might have considerably higher Italian population because of trade and military base